msagara: (Default)
Michelle Sagara ([personal profile] msagara) wrote2004-10-20 03:01 pm

Fanfic and flying under the radar

[livejournal.com profile] stakebait wrote
Been thinking more about this. What makes it [fanfic] not public is the attempt to fly under the radar of the Powers That Be, right? Or at least not actively draw their attention? Though how much that's done varies quite a bit from creator to creator. I know of at least one mailing list, read and posted to by the author, where fanfic is simply labeled "fanfic" so she can avoid reading it, but there's no attempt to pretend that it doesn't exist.

I've been thinking more about it as well. This is less an answer to your question than it started out being, but it is a more methodical examination of my own reaction.


What makes it less public is twofold, for me. Radar is part of it, but not by any means the whole. Let me try to express it. Let me take a whole new post to do it, because I've outrun my word limit. Again.

PART ONE

Fanfic is not a critique, nor is it a review of what exists; fanfic writers are certainly capable of doing book critiques/reviews or movie/tv critiques/reviews, but no one calls those fanfic. Both critique and review consider the text at hand (or the show at hand), assessing what's there, and giving their (hopefully but not always) informed opinion on it. There is a dialogue of sorts between some of these reviewers and the creative person(s) at the other end; there is a dialogue of sorts between some of these reviewers and the fans of the work in question. But if the review has some heat or love at its heart, it's still about the work as a whole. I don't consider this a dialogue in the standard sense; I'm now using dialogue in the sense that you used it originally, so if I stumble in that, bear with me.

In some instances, I think there are parodies or even satires -- but I don't consider those to be fanfic, and this could be because my definition is way the heck too narrow, i.e. I'm ignorant. Parody usually reflects the original work as a whole, and some understanding of the original is necessary in order for the parody to work at all; I consider parody a broad commentary, because that's the point of parody. Well, and also to make fun of the audience reaction. Digression.

Fanfic, rather than being a (theoretically) objective form of that dialogue or response, is much more of an emotional dialogue; it exists first between the reader and what they draw out of the primary work, and second, in the text they create. It explores other possibilities and permutations (if I understand what you've said correctly) that the original work did not -- or hasn't yet. Or never will.

But much of fanfic is essentially fiction, with serial numbers, and its aim is the aim, in many ways, of the original work, because if it didn't have some of that same feel or tone it wouldn't be fanfic. Because of the serial numbers, there is a need to fly under the radar. I would argue that it's that need that allows fanfic to thrive, although it does keep it out of the public eye to a greater or lesser extent. If you don't know anything about it, it's invisible; once you do, it's everywhere. Okay, I really have to stop with the digressions.

Having said that, let's go back to the need to fly under the radar. This is partly necessitated by legal convention, and as the copyright holder, I cannot outright decry it, for a variety of reasons, one being, I have some attachment to my copyright.

What happens under the radar is of less concern to me than what happens above the radar. There are things I would not want my characters to say or do. Obviously, when I'm writing, I have say in this (although, creative process being what it is, not 100% <wry g>). If someone is writing fanfic based on my characters or in my universe, what they want the characters to do is part of their emotional response. And -- beneath the radar -- this is a valid exploration; it's a little like daydreaming in public, which, in many ways, is where the heart of many stories start. The work comes after.

But if you remove the protective layer, which we'll call the radar level, I would feel a lot more ambivalent, because there are ways in which I would not want my characters to be represented to my readers, many of whom still don't own computers (I know, I always find this a bit shocking; it's stranger, to me, than not owning a telephone or a television but I digress, as always). In the public sense -- in the way my vision is present as my vision to the universe, or the small slice that reads my books <wry g>, and speaking with no delusions of grandeur (although I can't speak for other types of delusions), I can clearly state that I want my vision of my creation to be the canonical vision. I realize that's a lot of genetive use there.

Let me sum it up in a less unwieldy fashion: I do not want other writers defining canon in a universe I create.


PART TWO

But part of the difference in my reaction, part of the sense of "public" or "legitimate" stems, in part, from the medium through which the original property is first presented. Joss Whedon approves of fanfic, but he's doing Television, and I bet he'd be a lot less happy if fanfic writers were to get together and produce and air their own version of Buffy. A lot, as in lawsuits and really ugly things, and I don't think he'd be hands-off at that point.

Many of the people who watch the show will never read the licensed spinoffs, and they'll also never read the fanfic. Both the spinoffs and the fanfic fill a smaller role than the original broadcast did. It's accepted that what happens in the textual presentations or the comic books or the fanfic, etc, licensed or not., are not canonical; they can be ignored or changed or overturned at the whim of the licensor. In a sense, the spirit of generosity that allows the fanfic to exist can only be generous, in my view, because of that -- the other works are not canonical. They don't change anything. They don't touch or mark or move the original, and they don't open or close the avenues the original series can move in. The creator feels free to ignore them entirely.

When you're dealing with fanfic based on written work, you're suddenly dealing with the exact same medium, which is why I think more tension exists.

I don't know any writers who hate filksongs inspired by their works. I don't know any writers who hate art inspired by their work. Or costumes. Many would be perfectly happy to have RPGs or Television shows based on their works (if they were paid <g>).

But none of these media are the primary medium for the creator -- the text, in the case of books, is.

Knowing that canon is decided by me (and knowing that some people won't always be happy with the decisions I make) gives me the same comfort zone that someone producing television shows would have. Reviews, critiques-- these don't really change the way people view the original. Are they public? Yes. But in some sense they relate to the canonical work.

They make no attempt to change the work; they can savage it, they can praise it, they can dissect it for meaning -- but they're not there to rework to it; at most, they can shift the way we view what's already there. In this sense, the work is the point of the discourse. And as all writers know, once something is published, it's public, and people can say whatever the want about it. We're prepared for that. That's the sense of "public" I assume when I see the word.

In the case of fanfic, the work is the stepping stone, the foundation, the thing people stand on while they branch out; the anchor to which they tie their own skills, developing their own voices and abilities. At this point in time, one can sort of assume that readers and writers of fanfic have read or watched the originals, so there's a certainty of informed creation, even if the creation is not canon.

But were the fanfic based on novels to be published as novels in their own right -- without any vetting or interference from the original author -- there's no guarantee that new readers would be so informed, and the canonical understanding of a creation that originated elsewhere -- like, say, me -- could shift radically. A book, after all, is a book, and it sits on the shelf, like other books.

And I'm sorry if it makes me sound hideously selfish -- and I'm aware that it probably does -- but the right to set canon is incredibly important to me.

[identity profile] necessaryspace.livejournal.com 2004-10-20 12:16 pm (UTC)(link)
**the right to set canon is incredibly important to me** That doesn't make you sound selfish. It makes sense. You created the world. You created the characters and the plots. All of which can be incredibly difficult.

You put the work into all of that. Fanfic plays with what's already there. The effort put into writing that is nowhere near the effort in creating something original.
jamie: Japanese tea house surrounded by autumn leaves (autumn)

[personal profile] jamie 2004-10-20 12:21 pm (UTC)(link)
I didn't say anything to the post last night, nor to the comments because I'm afraid some of it might have come across as picking a fight. People feel very strongly about this issue. At the end of the day all we can 'own' is our ideas, our feelings, and perhaps if we're lucky, some cat hair. (I think this is where I insert your wry grin.)

That being said, the right to set canon is incredibly important to me.

It should be. It's your world and characters. The canon is set by you in the act of writing it and putting it out into the world. Beyond that what anyone does with it is up to them. I write fanfiction in Star Wars, which as a franchise has hit just about every medium that it can be, now. Books, movies, comics, cartoons, television, marketing of every type of item imaginable. I have never presumed that 'my' take on a Star Wars character is a canon one, nor that it ever supercedes that which the original creator(s) did.

I've had people write fanfiction that spun off of my fanfiction and it was an uncomfortable feeling. They took my 'original character' that I'd put into a story and had him do things I could never imagine. It made me sit back and look at the act that I myself was doing by writing such stories. In the end I came to the conclusion that once it is out in the world I don't own it anymore (and yes, I do understand legal copyright and defending it but I'm talking about the individual right to re-interpret the material they see and do something with it).

Stories are so much a part of the world and our culture that I don't think they can be owned, not really, and the attempt to control them, or more properly, what people do with them, is a futile exercise that will only raise blood pressure.

And yes, I think the copyright extension act by Disney is stupid too.

On the other hand I was highly upset when I found out one of my photographs had been slapped up on a website and had been passed around without credit. When I'm given credit I'm not nearly as upset, even if I wish I wasn't associated with the work in question (and that's a whole different bucket of worms).
jamie: bitter panda saying not quite zen (halloween)

[personal profile] jamie 2004-10-20 12:23 pm (UTC)(link)
The effort put into writing that is nowhere near the effort in creating something original.

It's been argued elsewhere, and I happen to agree, that it's a different sort of effort, but not necessarily less. Just like writing a newspaper article for AP as a wire piece is different than a magazine article.

[identity profile] dark-geisha.livejournal.com 2004-10-20 12:24 pm (UTC)(link)
I think you've nailed why the idea of fanfic based upon tv shows, comics & movies doesn't really bother me, but why fanfic based upon novels makes me squeamish. I think because I accept the novel as canon and don't need any other written form to fortify that. Obviously this isn't the case for other people.

However, something you brought up yesterday -- the idea of spaces and unexplored regions in storylines. That's more common in comics and tv shows, in my opinion. There are some gaps in the story presented by those media forms. In that respect, I understand why fanfic crops up. With novels -- and maybe this is a result of my own writing -- I don't see how there are gaps.

And no, I don't think it makes you sound selfish at all. In the end, it is your story and if there were no you, there'd be no story.

[identity profile] necessaryspace.livejournal.com 2004-10-20 12:28 pm (UTC)(link)
*wince* Yeah, I knew I was going to run into this about five seconds after I posted.

I was speaking from personal experience there and then I generalized (which all my English classes taught me to never, never do. Sigh. Six months out of school and it all vanishes). I've tried both and I find fanfic a lot easier in terms of ideas, plots, etc. In the actual act of writing -- putting together sentences, trying to find the right word, trying not to feel like you only have the vocabulary of a five year old ... they're both difficult because writing is so often like trying (for me) gymnastics.

[identity profile] haikujaguar.livejournal.com 2004-10-20 12:54 pm (UTC)(link)
You have touched upon something which I've been meaning to write about but haven't had the time, which is the concept that transit across media is transformative.

A piece of writing adapted for performance is transformed. A piece of art about a written character is a transformation. Moving across the media boundaries changes things, and sometimes that change creates conditions conducive to non-canonical variations that are not damaging to the canon.

At some point, I'd like to think more about the topic. Later. Maybe you can riff on it! :)

[identity profile] zhaneel69.livejournal.com 2004-10-20 12:58 pm (UTC)(link)
I complement you on this.

I've struggled with how I feel about fanfic. I like some TV fanfic stuff (SG-1, most notably). There is very little written FanFic I like [Very Secret Diaries, which isn't really "written" except that the books came first; and a slash Harry Potter with Naked Quidditch Calendar, which was too funny in my opinion].

I've read the book tie-ins of the Star Wars universe. And it was interesting to me. Some I liked. Some I didn't. And some authors couldn't seem to keep their hands off the "new" characters from other authors without twisting them, though they kept the trilogy ones fine. I've never read the fanfic off those tie-ins, but I'm willing to bet some of the authors came up through those ranks.

TNH at Norescon 4 talked about how FanFic can be a great training ground and that many, many of the authors writing pro now have done at least one fanfic. However, she didn't address the copyright issue.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if the stories from Mercades Lackey's anthology of Valdemar came out of her "Queen's Own" fanfic list? [having looked up her stance since yesterday, I know she prefers no fanfic outside that list]

Zhaneel
jamie: Japanese tea house surrounded by autumn leaves (autumn)

[personal profile] jamie 2004-10-20 01:05 pm (UTC)(link)
*laughs kindly* I didn't mean to make you wince. Seriously.

I understand what you meant by easier because there are a number of shortcuts that mediocre writers take (in fanfic especially) that make the statement broadly true.

1. No need to establish the characters unless you want to radically change something, and not necessarily even then.
2. Understood rules of how the world/universe/town works.
3. Understood events that can be referenced with a statement as simple as 'the war changed him'.

But on the harder side:
1. Attempting to stay true and keep the 'voice' of the existing characters.
2. Not contradicting the established canon events and making them work.
3. Finding a 'hole' that your story can fit into in canon.

And now I've gone sideways completely. Apologies to both of you. :)

[identity profile] twiegand.livejournal.com 2004-10-20 01:07 pm (UTC)(link)
You have a very good point. You have not only set the rules but you have created the game. It is your choice as to who gets to play that game. If it was created with the intention of it being a private interaction between you and the page, I see no reason why it shouldn't remain that way. If you create a world that is developed with an open invitation to others to come and join the game then all is fair WITHIN the limits you set. It comes down to what you decide is proper or permitted for your work. I am just grateful for the pass that you have extended to us that allows us to share in your vision.

[identity profile] msagara.livejournal.com 2004-10-20 01:15 pm (UTC)(link)
It should be. It's your world and characters. The canon is set by you in the act of writing it and putting it out into the world. Beyond that what anyone does with it is up to them. I write fanfiction in Star Wars, which as a franchise has hit just about every medium that it can be, now. Books, movies, comics, cartoons, television, marketing of every type of item imaginable. I have never presumed that 'my' take on a Star Wars character is a canon one, nor that it ever supercedes that which the original creator(s) did.

I'm fine with that -- but I'm not -- for the reasons stated in the post above -- fine with publication of the fanfic in the same medium as the original text. I'm not fine with people turning the work in to a commercial venture that I don't have say in, because almost by definition in this society, it's the commercial venture that defines the canon.

And I can certainly see that it's an issue that people feel strongly about. Where the medium differs, I do think it's less of an issue.

Stories are so much a part of the world and our culture that I don't think they can be owned, not really, and the attempt to control them, or more properly, what people do with them, is a futile exercise that will only raise blood pressure.

Sort of. The Buffy franchise doesn't control fanfic, and it never will. But it does control anything you have to pay money for, and it always will (if it knows about infractions). It's something you accept if you want to write in their universe and get paid.

If you were to publish a Buffy book of fanfic, the appropriate lawyers would eat you alive. So in this case, they're don't care what stories you tell yourself, they only care about the money that those stories don't make <wry g>. The same can be said about Star Wars fanfic, etc.

In either case, they're not trying to control what stories are told, just what venues they're told in.

I'm embarrassed to say that I don't actually know what the copyright extension act by Disney is; I remember Cory Doctorow talking about it, but I don't actually remember the content, only the hyperactive intensity <wry g>.

[identity profile] yhlee.livejournal.com 2004-10-20 01:19 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, this is fascinating. Thanks for bringing this up. I am now wondering how, for example, writers who do art/music/other-media things with their writing-creations tend to feel about this.

[identity profile] stakebait.livejournal.com 2004-10-20 01:24 pm (UTC)(link)
No, it doesn't make you sound selfish at all. I don't even think I'm disagreeing with you. I'm not itching for the right to publish my fanfic as a novel -- if I were, I'd be trying to network my way into the licensed spin offs business. I totally agree that it's the right of the creator to set canon.

I wouldn't want fanfic to be part of the canon. It would make canon an unknowable mess, branching off from every turning point in all directions, and hence make the future fanfic writer's task impossible.

I guess part of what I'm saying is that, to me, published on the Internet or in a zine could be both public enough to partake of the artistic conversation and still different enough from your novels to make the distinction you're talking about intuitively clear, even without the standard disclaimers.

Actually, I also think two published novels can be that different -- f'rex, the Frank Herbert Dune books versus the Brian Herbert Dune books. But I don't feel strongly enough about that to argue for it.

Fanfic is not a critique,

Sometimes I think it is -- a critique in fictional form, showing what the reader thinks was missing or wrong, not unlike a traditional parody, except by adding or fixing what the writer thinks is missing instead of exaggerating what is there. Like the Wind Done Gone, which was ruled a parody, but is hardly Bored of the Rings.

Not that I think all fanfic, or even most, falls into this category. But I do think it exists.

But if the review has some heat or love at its heart, it's still about the work as a whole.

some understanding of the original is necessary in order for the parody to work at all;

Some understanding of the original is necessary for fanfic to work too. In my experience, more understanding of the original is needed for fanfic than for review (which can focus on small or beside the point aspects) or for classic parody, because it's quite easy to mock the surface without understanding the substance.

Of course, quite a lot of fanfic does not work, and that may very well be because the writer doesn't understand the work, or is letting her wishes distort that understanding -- or just isn't a very good writer. But those things are true of parody and reviews as well. I'm not quite sure I'm getting the distinction that "the work as a whole" is meant to be making.

I agree that fanfic is a more emotional dialogue than review -- that's partly why I value it, because one of the things it says that review has trouble with is what emotional reaction the canon produced. I don't know that it's more emotional than parody, or just a different range of emotions, though I suppose mockery is inherently more distancing than love.

It explores other possibilities and permutations (if I understand what you've said correctly) that the original work did not -- or hasn't yet. Or never will.

Often. Other kinds try to recreate as close to canon as possible. But it has to be somewhat different, or it's just plagiarism.

one being, I have some attachment to my copyright.

*nodsnodsnods* Of course you do. I'm hoping, if/when I'm able to publish a novel, to do so under a Creative Commons license which would allow noncommercial derivative works with attribution and retain the rest of my rights.

Digression: I only know of one first novelist (Cory Doctorow) who published under a Creative Commons license, so I don't know how possible that would be to negotiate. And right now CC either allows derivative works only, but can be for profit, or nonprofit only, but including verbatim copying as well as derivative works. I did ask for a nonprofit sampling only license when they were developing it, but it didn't happen.) End digression.

property is first presented. Joss Whedon approves of fanfic, but he's doing Television, and I bet he'd be a lot less happy if fanfic writers were to get together and produce and air their own version of Buffy.

People do make fan videos, mostly by reediting footage. I don't know how Joss feels about it. Lucas Arts had a contest for Star Wars fanvids, though, so I don't think objection is a universal reaction to work in the same medium.

continued in next comment

[identity profile] msagara.livejournal.com 2004-10-20 01:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Out of curiosity, does anyone know if the stories from Mercades Lackey's anthology of Valdemar came out of her "Queen's Own" fanfic list? [having looked up her stance since yesterday, I know she prefers no fanfic outside that list]

I can answer that, for at least three of the stories in each book. No. I didn't even know there was a list <wry g>. The anthologies are, of course, vetted by her, but a number of the submissions are invitations that ago through Tekno books. They take the stories they ask for and pass them on to Misty; Misty will either accept or reject those stories, and the ones she accepts, get published.

I believe there are also stories that she solicits directly. I'm one of the Tekno invitees. I'm very proud of my first story for her Valedmar anthology Sword of Ice because I know that one worked for her readers (right tone); I wasn't happy with the tone of the second story, because it wasn't quite right.

And if I'm going to play in someone else's sandbox, there's no point if I'm not, well, in the sandbox <wry g>.

[identity profile] stakebait.livejournal.com 2004-10-20 01:27 pm (UTC)(link)
In a sense, the spirit of generosity that allows the fanfic to exist can only be generous, in my view, because of that -- the other works are not canonical. They don't change anything. They don't touch or mark or move the original, and they don't open or close the avenues the original series can move in. The creator feels free to ignore them entirely.

Absolutely. And I wouldn't ever want that to change. It would just be nice to think that I could put my real name on my writing and not risk a law suit for it, and not worry that in this very discussion I'm breaking the ettiquette of fannish self-preservation by indicating to some PTB that my journal is a place to start looking for this stuff.

When you're dealing with fanfic based on written work, you're suddenly dealing with the exact same medium, which is why I think more tension exists.

There's been tension in the film medium too, from time to time. But you could well be right. I've only written a couple pieces of bookfic, one in a fandom for a former fanfic writer who encourages fanfic, and the other so under the radar that I'd be surprised if anyone read it.

Reviews, critiques-- these don't really change the way people view the original.

Sometimes they do. Sometimes they've changed how I view an original, by shifting the context in which I see it.

Are they public? Yes. But in some sense they relate to the canonical work.

And fanfic doesn't? I don't get that.

They make no attempt to change the work; they can savage it, they can praise it, they can dissect it for meaning -- but they're not there to rework to it; at most, they can shift the way we view what's already there.

Oh, I see. They relate to it as is. But parody does change it, while still relating to the original. This is why, to my mind, fanfic *is* parody -- albeit the unfunny kind, like the Wind Done Gone.

In the case of fanfic, the work is the stepping stone, the foundation, the thing people stand on while they branch out; the anchor to which they tie their own skills, developing their own voices and abilities.

*nodsnods* Yes, I agree completely. But I guess, to me, that's part of why I used the term artistic conversation -- not just the analysis of a particular work, but the way one work inspires the next work inspires the next work, in agreement or in rebuttal, or some of each.

Some of my favorite pieces of art are reworkings of other pieces of art -- Grendel, Till We Have Faces, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead, Wicked, etc. A lot of those originals are in the public domain, of course. And some of the others use other's characters in ways that the courts have, in the past, allowed. But it's getting harder and harder to do that.

And since it now takes longer than a human lifespan to get out of the public domain, it strikes me as too high a price to pay that people can live and die never being able to react, in fiction, to the fictions that moved them most. I don't think anyone would mistake Wicked for L. Frank Baum's canonical take on the wicked witch of the west, even though they're both novels, precisely because the canon was the stepping stone to a new voice. And I would be very sorry not to have been able to read it.

At this point in time, one can sort of assume that readers and writers of fanfic have read or watched the originals, so there's a certainty of informed creation,

That's not always true. There are people who will follow a favorite fanfic writer to a new fandom. However in spirit you're totally right. It's extremely rare for them not to then go out and get the canon and become familiar with it. And even if they don't, they're certainly aware that there *is* a canon that this is merely riffing off of.

No conclusion to come to, I'm just noodling along as best I can.
jamie: bitter panda saying not quite zen (Default)

[personal profile] jamie 2004-10-20 01:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Disney is attempting to get the copyright extended by another 20 years so as to protect their sole right to earn money off the Mouse. Since he was created by Walt, and Walt has been dead, lo these many years, they are running out of time before it would pass into public domain and they want to prevent that.

[identity profile] zhaneel69.livejournal.com 2004-10-20 01:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Tekno?

And now I remember you've said something about this before so I should pull out my Sword of Ice to read said short story again. I guess I have read some of your fiction after all... ;-)

Zhaneel

[identity profile] haikujaguar.livejournal.com 2004-10-20 01:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Although one might argue (on point 1 of the harder side) that there's no way for the writer to know that they've stayed true to the voice of the character because the person in charge of the character voice isn't there to tell you whether you've got it right.

[identity profile] stakebait.livejournal.com 2004-10-20 01:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Depends on the original. And on the fanfic too, I suppose.

What makes fanfic easier for me than original fic is my entitlement issues: I don't feel half so egotistical in writing fanfic to the demands of a pre-existing audience. Writing original work implies that I think someone should care about my own POV, which the backbrain translates as selfishness and cuts the words off dead. But that's a separate neurosis and shall be told another time, in my own journal.

Apart from that, it's like free verse versus structured verse -- some people find one easier, some the other.

The thing is, it's easier to get away with fanfic that's not done as well and still find that pre-existing audience. There are juried sites and edited zines, but people will read you without them. Whereas original fiction pretty well has to get past a gatekeeper to get anyone's attention.
jamie: bitter panda saying not quite zen (girls kick ass)

Keeping things in the same medium

[personal profile] jamie 2004-10-20 01:43 pm (UTC)(link)
To answer the other part of your reply in brief:

Except for some rather naive people who come out with 'oh you're loads better than X...they should publish you instead', most of us have absolutely no illusions about taking our much beloved and tortured book to Joss Whedon and saying we want to make a tv show out of it.

By and large most fanfic writers can't be arsed to do much more than post it to a list or to the Pit of Voles (tm) (Fanfiction.net) and wait for the feedback to roll in. I don't think the problem of someone writing a story based on a story and selling it is all that common.

For the record, the only booklit fanfic I did was for Lynn Flewlling's stuff and went to a few people before she came out against fanfic. Once her opinion was formed (strongly against) I withdrew the piece and it hasn't been anywhere but my harddrive since. I don't get stories from other people's books. I get stories from my head, and from my life and my world.

And it isn't consistently that it's a media thing either, to go on a tangent. I adore Babylon 5 but don't write fanfic for it for two reasons. One - I don't really see any 'holes' except outside the arcs that were aired. Two - I don't think I could do it justice so I'm not even going to try.

Shutting up now.
jamie: Japanese tea house surrounded by autumn leaves (autumn)

[personal profile] jamie 2004-10-20 01:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Sure - and that's where you get into the one easily visible advantage of fan-produced fiction. A built in audience. You'll get feedback across the spectrum telling you how well you did or didn't get it. ;-) Sometimes from the same person.

Messy, that.

[identity profile] haikujaguar.livejournal.com 2004-10-20 01:48 pm (UTC)(link)
*nods* True. But the fans won't necessarily know what's canonical for the character either--only the author knows that. Authors are known for keeping incredible secrets about characters. *grin*

Disney / Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act ...

[identity profile] davidcook.livejournal.com 2004-10-20 01:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Basically, Disney were worried that the copyright on characters like Mickey Mouse, Goofy, and Donald Duck were due to expire, and with some amount of lobbying and money passing around, the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act was passed - changing copyrights on works created by individuals to "life of author + 70 years" (from "life + 50 years" before), and extending copyrights owned by corporations to 95 years.

(got most of this from here (http://writ.news.findlaw.com/commentary/20020305_sprigman.html))

[identity profile] zhaneel69.livejournal.com 2004-10-20 01:52 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm not quite sure I'm getting the distinction that "the work as a whole" is meant to be making.

Speaking for me [not Michelle]:

The review doesn't focus [generally] on one scene or one character or one plot line. It focuses on the entire book.

FanFic, IME, tends to take a very narrow plot-line or character. Maybe my experience is to the contrary, but that is what I've seen.

Frex:

An SG-1 fanfic that expands on the 100 days episode. So it is confined to that one episode, not the series as a whole

A short story in Terre d'Angel about one of Phedra's single-time clients. That story is about the client and doesn't span the triology.

While I agree that for a fanfic to work, one has to have read majority of the body of work to have the underpinning assumptions down, the story itself is generally a pretty narrow topic.

Zhaneel

[identity profile] stakebait.livejournal.com 2004-10-20 02:02 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, I see. Thanks. I guess I see more reviews like that -- I'm in a fannish community where people routinely review each individual episode of a TV show, and sometimes just one aspect of an episode, as a complete essay unto itself. One of my favorite examples was on, I kid you not, the symbolism of shirt color.

So I totally get how fanfic can be narrowly focused even though it has the whole work as backdrop, but I don't see that as making it different from the kind of critique that a fan without a space limitation writes for other fans.

[identity profile] chance88088.livejournal.com 2004-10-20 02:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Hi - just to clarify a little - The Sonny Bono copyright extension act (of 1997 I think) did in fact extend copyright for 20 years over the previous life +70.

However, Mickey is a trademarked character and will never enter the public domain, only works created with him will. So someday Steamboat Willie and Fantasia will be public domain, but you will never be able to write and publish new original fiction featuring Mickey Mouse.

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