Fanfic and flying under the radar

[msagara]

stakebait wrote
Been thinking more about this. What makes it [fanfic] not public is the attempt to fly under the radar of the Powers That Be, right? Or at least not actively draw their attention? Though how much that's done varies quite a bit from creator to creator. I know of at least one mailing list, read and posted to by the author, where fanfic is simply labeled "fanfic" so she can avoid reading it, but there's no attempt to pretend that it doesn't exist.

I've been thinking more about it as well. This is less an answer to your question than it started out being, but it is a more methodical examination of my own reaction.


What makes it less public is twofold, for me. Radar is part of it, but not by any means the whole. Let me try to express it. Let me take a whole new post to do it, because I've outrun my word limit. Again.

PART ONE

Fanfic is not a critique, nor is it a review of what exists; fanfic writers are certainly capable of doing book critiques/reviews or movie/tv critiques/reviews, but no one calls those fanfic. Both critique and review consider the text at hand (or the show at hand), assessing what's there, and giving their (hopefully but not always) informed opinion on it. There is a dialogue of sorts between some of these reviewers and the creative person(s) at the other end; there is a dialogue of sorts between some of these reviewers and the fans of the work in question. But if the review has some heat or love at its heart, it's still about the work as a whole. I don't consider this a dialogue in the standard sense; I'm now using dialogue in the sense that you used it originally, so if I stumble in that, bear with me.

In some instances, I think there are parodies or even satires -- but I don't consider those to be fanfic, and this could be because my definition is way the heck too narrow, i.e. I'm ignorant. Parody usually reflects the original work as a whole, and some understanding of the original is necessary in order for the parody to work at all; I consider parody a broad commentary, because that's the point of parody. Well, and also to make fun of the audience reaction. Digression.

Fanfic, rather than being a (theoretically) objective form of that dialogue or response, is much more of an emotional dialogue; it exists first between the reader and what they draw out of the primary work, and second, in the text they create. It explores other possibilities and permutations (if I understand what you've said correctly) that the original work did not -- or hasn't yet. Or never will.

But much of fanfic is essentially fiction, with serial numbers, and its aim is the aim, in many ways, of the original work, because if it didn't have some of that same feel or tone it wouldn't be fanfic. Because of the serial numbers, there is a need to fly under the radar. I would argue that it's that need that allows fanfic to thrive, although it does keep it out of the public eye to a greater or lesser extent. If you don't know anything about it, it's invisible; once you do, it's everywhere. Okay, I really have to stop with the digressions.

Having said that, let's go back to the need to fly under the radar. This is partly necessitated by legal convention, and as the copyright holder, I cannot outright decry it, for a variety of reasons, one being, I have some attachment to my copyright.

What happens under the radar is of less concern to me than what happens above the radar. There are things I would not want my characters to say or do. Obviously, when I'm writing, I have say in this (although, creative process being what it is, not 100% <wry g>). If someone is writing fanfic based on my characters or in my universe, what they want the characters to do is part of their emotional response. And -- beneath the radar -- this is a valid exploration; it's a little like daydreaming in public, which, in many ways, is where the heart of many stories start. The work comes after.

But if you remove the protective layer, which we'll call the radar level, I would feel a lot more ambivalent, because there are ways in which I would not want my characters to be represented to my readers, many of whom still don't own computers (I know, I always find this a bit shocking; it's stranger, to me, than not owning a telephone or a television but I digress, as always). In the public sense -- in the way my vision is present as my vision to the universe, or the small slice that reads my books <wry g>, and speaking with no delusions of grandeur (although I can't speak for other types of delusions), I can clearly state that I want my vision of my creation to be the canonical vision. I realize that's a lot of genetive use there.

Let me sum it up in a less unwieldy fashion: I do not want other writers defining canon in a universe I create.


PART TWO

But part of the difference in my reaction, part of the sense of "public" or "legitimate" stems, in part, from the medium through which the original property is first presented. Joss Whedon approves of fanfic, but he's doing Television, and I bet he'd be a lot less happy if fanfic writers were to get together and produce and air their own version of Buffy. A lot, as in lawsuits and really ugly things, and I don't think he'd be hands-off at that point.

Many of the people who watch the show will never read the licensed spinoffs, and they'll also never read the fanfic. Both the spinoffs and the fanfic fill a smaller role than the original broadcast did. It's accepted that what happens in the textual presentations or the comic books or the fanfic, etc, licensed or not., are not canonical; they can be ignored or changed or overturned at the whim of the licensor. In a sense, the spirit of generosity that allows the fanfic to exist can only be generous, in my view, because of that -- the other works are not canonical. They don't change anything. They don't touch or mark or move the original, and they don't open or close the avenues the original series can move in. The creator feels free to ignore them entirely.

When you're dealing with fanfic based on written work, you're suddenly dealing with the exact same medium, which is why I think more tension exists.

I don't know any writers who hate filksongs inspired by their works. I don't know any writers who hate art inspired by their work. Or costumes. Many would be perfectly happy to have RPGs or Television shows based on their works (if they were paid <g>).

But none of these media are the primary medium for the creator -- the text, in the case of books, is.

Knowing that canon is decided by me (and knowing that some people won't always be happy with the decisions I make) gives me the same comfort zone that someone producing television shows would have. Reviews, critiques-- these don't really change the way people view the original. Are they public? Yes. But in some sense they relate to the canonical work.

They make no attempt to change the work; they can savage it, they can praise it, they can dissect it for meaning -- but they're not there to rework to it; at most, they can shift the way we view what's already there. In this sense, the work is the point of the discourse. And as all writers know, once something is published, it's public, and people can say whatever the want about it. We're prepared for that. That's the sense of "public" I assume when I see the word.

In the case of fanfic, the work is the stepping stone, the foundation, the thing people stand on while they branch out; the anchor to which they tie their own skills, developing their own voices and abilities. At this point in time, one can sort of assume that readers and writers of fanfic have read or watched the originals, so there's a certainty of informed creation, even if the creation is not canon.

But were the fanfic based on novels to be published as novels in their own right -- without any vetting or interference from the original author -- there's no guarantee that new readers would be so informed, and the canonical understanding of a creation that originated elsewhere -- like, say, me -- could shift radically. A book, after all, is a book, and it sits on the shelf, like other books.

And I'm sorry if it makes me sound hideously selfish -- and I'm aware that it probably does -- but the right to set canon is incredibly important to me.

Comments

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

In a sense, the spirit of generosity that allows the fanfic to exist can only be generous, in my view, because of that -- the other works are not canonical. They don't change anything. They don't touch or mark or move the original, and they don't open or close the avenues the original series can move in. The creator feels free to ignore them entirely.

Absolutely. And I wouldn't ever want that to change. It would just be nice to think that I could put my real name on my writing and not risk a law suit for it, and not worry that in this very discussion I'm breaking the ettiquette of fannish self-preservation by indicating to some PTB that my journal is a place to start looking for this stuff.

When you're dealing with fanfic based on written work, you're suddenly dealing with the exact same medium, which is why I think more tension exists.

There's been tension in the film medium too, from time to time. But you could well be right. I've only written a couple pieces of bookfic, one in a fandom for a former fanfic writer who encourages fanfic, and the other so under the radar that I'd be surprised if anyone read it.

Reviews, critiques-- these don't really change the way people view the original.

Sometimes they do. Sometimes they've changed how I view an original, by shifting the context in which I see it.

Are they public? Yes. But in some sense they relate to the canonical work.

And fanfic doesn't? I don't get that.

They make no attempt to change the work; they can savage it, they can praise it, they can dissect it for meaning -- but they're not there to rework to it; at most, they can shift the way we view what's already there.

Oh, I see. They relate to it as is. But parody does change it, while still relating to the original. This is why, to my mind, fanfic *is* parody -- albeit the unfunny kind, like the Wind Done Gone.

In the case of fanfic, the work is the stepping stone, the foundation, the thing people stand on while they branch out; the anchor to which they tie their own skills, developing their own voices and abilities.

*nodsnods* Yes, I agree completely. But I guess, to me, that's part of why I used the term artistic conversation -- not just the analysis of a particular work, but the way one work inspires the next work inspires the next work, in agreement or in rebuttal, or some of each.

Some of my favorite pieces of art are reworkings of other pieces of art -- Grendel, Till We Have Faces, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead, Wicked, etc. A lot of those originals are in the public domain, of course. And some of the others use other's characters in ways that the courts have, in the past, allowed. But it's getting harder and harder to do that.

And since it now takes longer than a human lifespan to get out of the public domain, it strikes me as too high a price to pay that people can live and die never being able to react, in fiction, to the fictions that moved them most. I don't think anyone would mistake Wicked for L. Frank Baum's canonical take on the wicked witch of the west, even though they're both novels, precisely because the canon was the stepping stone to a new voice. And I would be very sorry not to have been able to read it.

At this point in time, one can sort of assume that readers and writers of fanfic have read or watched the originals, so there's a certainty of informed creation,

That's not always true. There are people who will follow a favorite fanfic writer to a new fandom. However in spirit you're totally right. It's extremely rare for them not to then go out and get the canon and become familiar with it. And even if they don't, they're certainly aware that there *is* a canon that this is merely riffing off of.

No conclusion to come to, I'm just noodling along as best I can.

[msagara.livejournal.com]

It would just be nice to think that I could put my real name on my writing and not risk a law suit for it, and not worry that in this very discussion I'm breaking the ettiquette of fannish self-preservation by indicating to some PTB that my journal is a place to start looking for this stuff.

This makes sense. I write under two or three names -- Michelle West, Michelle Sagara, and Michelle Sagara West (the latter not on purpose, but it happens anyway <wry g>). I would not, however, mind writing under a different name again -- I kind of want the stories to be written, and to be out there; my name is sort of an afterthought. If that makes sense.

This isn't in any way meant to diminish the desire to be associated with your own work; it is work; I can't imagine that it's hugely less work than the work I do. Well, okay, SUN SWORD was 420,000 words long (the last of six volumes on its own, that is), but in principle.

Oh, I see. They relate to it as is. But parody does change it, while still relating to the original. This is why, to my mind, fanfic *is* parody -- albeit the unfunny kind, like the Wind Done Gone.

I don't consider most fanfic to be done with an intent to poke fun, which I generally consider parody to be. Sometimes the "fun" is just cruel, but there. The changes made are changes that are recognizeable riffs on what's there. I don't consider the emotional intent of parody to be the emotional intent of most fanfic -- but I don't read fanfic, so I'm making base assumptions that could be entirely wrong, wrong, wrong. Sadly, it would not be the first time I've been wrong.

In the case of fanfic, the work is the stepping stone, the foundation, the thing people stand on while they branch out; the anchor to which they tie their own skills, developing their own voices and abilities.

*nodsnods* Yes, I agree completely. But I guess, to me, that's part of why I used the term artistic conversation -- not just the analysis of a particular work, but the way one work inspires the next work inspires the next work, in agreement or in rebuttal, or some of each.

Ah! Got it. Literary dialogue! The light dawns. I have, in the words of Pratchett, a mental sunrise. Where each particular fandom is a microcosm of the larger literary tradition.

Some of my favorite pieces of art are reworkings of other pieces of art -- Grendel, Till We Have Faces, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead, Wicked, etc. A lot of those originals are in the public domain, of course. And some of the others use other's characters in ways that the courts have, in the past, allowed. But it's getting harder and harder to do that.

Part of the reason these work so well, though, is that those works are widely enough known that there's a resonance; the work comes as a revelation that's almost mythic or archetypal in force. It's not a literary dialogue, but a dialogue with our past, with our possible naivete, with what we've bought into at other times.

Fifty years from now, if Buffy were part of the collective cultural psyche, it would be possible -- I think -- to have that same overarching effect. I know that it wouldn't be possible for it to have that effect on me at the moment, because Buffy is of this moment; the time for turning that over, for seeing what lies underneath and is relevant to a different generation with different myths and experiences, isn't yet; she's ours.

No conclusion to come to, I'm just noodling along as best I can.

Me too. The point about public domain is a good one -- but for me, I see the later works working because the note of cultural relevance, the shift of perspective, is in part generational.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

my name is sort of an afterthought. If that makes sense.

It does. It isn't the pseud that bugs me -- I may use one for original stuff myself. It's the anxiety about what happens if my (extremely thin, I suck at anonymity) wall is breached.

I can't imagine that it's hugely less work than the work I do.

It's less, for me anyway. The worldbuilding is done, & I can get away with short stories that only get readers invested because they have a series' worth of backstory behind them.

Some people write series of fannish novels that challenge you for wordcount, but I ain't one of 'em. Even my co-written series (& co-writing, IMO, is vastly easier) didn't come close.

Plus, my editing work is less, because it's done when I say. (I'd guess finding an editor who will be critical enough is less of a problem for you. But I could be wrong.) & I don't have to sell it. But I'd like to put my name on it anyway. Fortunately a consistant pseud has much the same effect.

I don't consider most fanfic to be done with an intent to poke fun, which I generally consider parody to be.

Neither do I. To fit fanfic under that rubric, you have to take a broader definition of parody as transformative use (which I got from a legal essay by Rebecca Tushnet, but seems to be in keeping with the Wind Done Gone case, since no one seems to find that funny.)

so I'm making base assumptions that could be entirely wrong, wrong, wrong.

No, you're right. Humorous fanfic does exist, but it's a small subgenre, & the amount which is poking fun (not just trying to be funny) is smaller.

Ah! Got it. Literary dialogue! The light dawns. I have, in the words of Pratchett, a mental sunrise. Where each particular fandom is a microcosm of the larger literary tradition.

Yes, that's exactly what I was groping for. Though you said it much better.

Part of the reason these work so well, though, is that those works are widely enough known that there's a resonance; the work comes as a revelation that's almost mythic or archetypal in force.

I agree. I do think, though, that at least in my fannish microcosm, that's the way the common source canon feels to us -- that's why it was sufficiently paradigm-changing to organize a major part of our thinking, reading, and writing around.

I'm not going to claim that Joss is Shakespeare, but in my daily life I speak Buffy -- not only the addictive neologisms, but in metaphors drawn from those characters, like my personal myths, & my friends do too. There may not be that resonance to the man on the street, but to our own audience, there is. Much like Nightfall to an SF fan.

It's not a literary dialogue, but a dialogue with our past, with our possible naivete, with what we've bought into at other times.

Ah, I see. That part isn't there in fanfic. (At least my bits. I'm told there's Shakespeare, Austen, & Bible fanfic.)

Fifty years from now, if Buffy were part of the collective cultural psyche, it would be possible -- I think -- to have that same overarching effect.the time for turning that over, for seeing what lies underneath and is relevant to a different generation with different myths and experiences, isn't yet; she's ours.

She is indeed. But do we only want to write about other people's myths? I'm also interested in Jewish stories by Jews, Christian stories by Christians, & wireless networking stories by Cory Doctorow . :) I want to see what myths mean to the people who believe them -- & I want to write what my own mean to me in fiction, because that's how I find out.

I see the later works working because the note of cultural relevance, the shift of perspective, is in part generational.

*nods* That does make sense. I don't think you get that shift in most contemporary fanfic -- you get a much closer perspective, of people who are living with, in, & through these stories as they happen. But I like that too.

[msagara.livejournal.com]

It isn't the pseud that bugs me -- I may use one for original stuff myself. It's the anxiety about what happens if my (extremely thin, I suck at anonymity) wall is breached.

I suck, suck, suck at anonymity too. Which is to say, I'm sure people would figure it out if I even tried. And a big Doh! Of course that's an issue -- if I weren't stupid with antihistamines (fully body hives that are really really itchy), I would have probably understood this on the first pass. I'm thinking like a original fic writer. (Is there a fanfic word for that? Or is that word just 'pro'?)

so I'm making base assumptions that could be entirely wrong, wrong, wrong.

No, you're right. Humorous fanfic does exist, but it's a small subgenre, & the amount which is poking fun (not just trying to be funny) is smaller.

I can't imagine trying to write funny Buffy, although the dialogue always has those overtones; you can't have that kind of wit without some humour, even if it's gallows humour. I'm sure mine had that.

Ah! Got it. Literary dialogue! The light dawns. I have, in the words of Pratchett, a mental sunrise. Where each particular fandom is a microcosm of the larger literary tradition.

Yes, that's exactly what I was groping for. Though you said it much better.

Actually, I finally clued in in one of oyceter's posts and the response to that (mine).

I'm not going to claim that Joss is Shakespeare, but in my daily life I speak Buffy -- not only the addictive neologisms, but in metaphors drawn from those characters, like my personal myths, & my friends do too. There may not be that resonance to the man on the street, but to our own audience, there is. Much like Nightfall to an SF fan.

I speak Buffy in daily life as well. Although lately that's been more Firefly, because I really loved that show. Note how I'm not saying Fox Sucks. Much.

Good point. I guess I'm less concerned with the collectible cultural psyche than the individual. For me those works get power from how I felt reading the original and how I've changed, both because of it and since, more than how we as a culture have.

I'm wondering if part of the reason I don't have this resonance is because I was thirty when I first came to Buffy, and it's harder to develop that sense of the mythic at that age; it's easy to develop compulsion and attachment, but for me I can see so much that isn't Buffy in Buffy, so many other sources from other experiences in both reading and popular culture. The latter of which could be considered one of my huge blind points

She is indeed. But do we only want to write about other people's myths? I'm also interested in Jewish stories by Jews, Christian stories by Christians, & wireless networking stories by Cory Doctorow . :) I want to see what myths mean to the people who believe them -- & I want to write what my own mean to me in fiction, because that's how I find out.

Oh, I don't think we have to write only other people's myths -- for me, Buffy isn't myth. It's mythic, because of the inverted hero structure, but it's not myth in the sense that I love the show, but don't believe it. At some point, those myths were beliefs, were held as true, and in some cases still are. If that makes sense. Writing about things that aren't mythic isn't a problem either; writing about things that are compelling, I assume, is the driving force behind much of fanfic.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

I suck, suck, suck at anonymity too. Which is to say, I'm sure people would figure it out if I even tried.

I think about a quarter of my FL already knows who I am. Plus I chaired Buffycon under my real name, and posted about it in my LJ, and the email account I use for LJ has my real name on the reply field. Basically I try to make sure they're not Googleable together to the casual eye, but beyond that it'd take about 15 minutes to connect the dots.

(fully body hives that are really really itchy)

Ugh, I'm sorry. I've had exactly one hive in my life, and that was quite bad enough.

I'm thinking like a original fic writer. (Is there a fanfic word for that? Or is that word just 'pro'?)

Pro, if they've sold. Otherwise "original fic writer" is fine. There are people, many of whom come out of the fanfic community, writing and posting original fic to the web for free, so we do need the distinction. "Real" writer has been used on occasion, but I wouldn't recommend it.

I can't imagine trying to write funny Buffy,

Nor I, but people do. I have an Iron Author request I've left dangling for months because they want Willow/Xander as a romantic comedy and I can't get past my *blink* reaction. Also I don't think I know how to write romantic commedy. It keeps degenerating into old French farce in my head.

Actually, I finally clued in in one of oyceter's posts and the response to that (mine).

Cool!

Which post? (If it's public, of course.)

I speak Buffy in daily life as well. Although lately that's been more Firefly, because I really loved that show. Note how I'm not saying Fox Sucks. Much.

Hee! I've only see a few eps of Firefly. I didn't really have time to get attached. But I did buy the DVDs, and I've got to watch them before Serenity comes out, so there may be a foredoomed and tragic love in my future.

I'm wondering if part of the reason I don't have this resonance is because I was thirty when I first came to Buffy,

Quite possibly? I was (does math) 22? Can that be right? Good lord. Anyway, when I tipped over from a casual viewer to a regular viewer to an obsessed fan I was about 26 -- it was Fool For Love that did it. And not long after I had a terrible breakup and threw myself into the Buffyverse as place to put all the energy I used to use on keeping us together, and an alternative to not feeling anything. I'm over the breakup at last, but the Buffy bonding remains.

I can see so much that isn't Buffy in Buffy, so many other sources from other experiences in both reading and popular culture. The latter of which could be considered one of my huge blind points

*nods* I can see that stuff, at least some of it, but for me that's sort of like tracing the sources of Shakespeare's plots -- I know they're not original to him, but it's he that really pulled them together in a form that punched me in the gut, so his is the mythic version for me, and the others are only ancestors, of academic interest.

It's mythic, because of the inverted hero structure, but it's not myth in the sense that I love the show, but don't believe it. At some point, those myths were beliefs, were held as true, and in some cases still are. If that makes sense.

It does make sense. And it doesn't, I hope, need saying that I don't believe there was a real Buffy and she lived in a real town that doesn't exist any more. But for someone like me, who hasn't believed in anything in that sense since Santa Claus, believing in Buffy and Paul Muad Dib and Ender Wiggins is probably as close as I'm ever going to get. I don't have real. I'll settle for true.

writing about things that are compelling, I assume, is the driving force behind much of fanfic.

Absolutely.