I don't believe conversations about relationships, or about this concept of settling and all the ensuing thoughts, are boring, but I also recognize I'm not exactly Joe Everyman. I know other guys I could easily have these conversations with who would also not find them boring. But I definitely know MORE women who I HAVE had conversations like this with, who are much more interested in the topic, and in analyzing the whys/hows/wherefores.
On the whole concept of relatinships = happiness, I do believe we are all -- men and women alike -- conditioned to think that coupledom is the be-all, end-all, and that the definition of coupledom that we are handed is often incredibly damaging. I think men are less likely to ADMIT that they believe coupledom = happiness, although here I do see a significant difference between gay and straight men. My gay friends are much more frank than my straight friends about wanting a relationship. And men are certainly offered a much larger variety of ways to define themselves in our patriarchal society than by their relationship status. I do believe women disproportionately suffer from the relationship-mania.
But when the truth bubbles up, even my straight friends are really expecting to find someone some day. And in all cases, I've heard discussion about settling versus waiting for The One. I read Gottleib's article when you linked it, and I read the ensuing conversation. I admit I did not read the interview, although I had planned to, but after reading the article I just found myself not liking Gottleib and not wanting to read the interview with her. I think your discussion of what she was saying was very close to my thoughts on finishing the article. Because while I dislike the societally-supported idea that all people must be in a relationship to be happy, I COMPLETELY believe that the human animal is a social animal, who functions best when in regular contact with supportive, affectional other human animals. Do I think we all need to be married or in romantic bliss to be happy? Absolutely not. Do I think a lot of people are lonely, and long for companionship? Absolutely.
I hated Gottleib's tone, although I think your husband is correct in his assessment that she was "trying to be funny." She wasn't. She was aiming for something, and she completely missed, imo. But I read her article and came away thinking "at the heart of it, when she's making those horrific statements about how all women want to married, what she's talking about is the human impulse to share our lives." And that's not only NOT a bad thing, it is certainly not something that is confined to women. Even the biggest introverts around (read... me) have the impulse and desire to be in contact with supportive, affectional humans. We thrive under human contact, and we often fade and wither without it. In no way shape or form should a high value on relationships be seen as a weakness, but so often it becomes narrowly focused down to "A ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP" which again, I think has been twisted out of all recognition by our society/culture, and yes, by popular culture, however much I adore it.
I think the idea of reevaluating how we choose the people we surround ourselves with, and the relationships we form with them, is fantastic, and that it's way past time more people talked about it. I think that *may* be some of what Gottleib was trying to get at. The offensive and demeaning way she presented settling almost completely obscured it, however. I could read it between the lines in places, but her tone and style really got in the way.
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branchandroot
Alex, continued
Date: 2008-03-12 10:13 pm (UTC)On the whole concept of relatinships = happiness, I do believe we are all -- men and women alike -- conditioned to think that coupledom is the be-all, end-all, and that the definition of coupledom that we are handed is often incredibly damaging. I think men are less likely to ADMIT that they believe coupledom = happiness, although here I do see a significant difference between gay and straight men. My gay friends are much more frank than my straight friends about wanting a relationship. And men are certainly offered a much larger variety of ways to define themselves in our patriarchal society than by their relationship status. I do believe women disproportionately suffer from the relationship-mania.
But when the truth bubbles up, even my straight friends are really expecting to find someone some day. And in all cases, I've heard discussion about settling versus waiting for The One. I read Gottleib's article when you linked it, and I read the ensuing conversation. I admit I did not read the interview, although I had planned to, but after reading the article I just found myself not liking Gottleib and not wanting to read the interview with her. I think your discussion of what she was saying was very close to my thoughts on finishing the article. Because while I dislike the societally-supported idea that all people must be in a relationship to be happy, I COMPLETELY believe that the human animal is a social animal, who functions best when in regular contact with supportive, affectional other human animals. Do I think we all need to be married or in romantic bliss to be happy? Absolutely not. Do I think a lot of people are lonely, and long for companionship? Absolutely.
I hated Gottleib's tone, although I think your husband is correct in his assessment that she was "trying to be funny." She wasn't. She was aiming for something, and she completely missed, imo. But I read her article and came away thinking "at the heart of it, when she's making those horrific statements about how all women want to married, what she's talking about is the human impulse to share our lives." And that's not only NOT a bad thing, it is certainly not something that is confined to women. Even the biggest introverts around (read... me) have the impulse and desire to be in contact with supportive, affectional humans. We thrive under human contact, and we often fade and wither without it. In no way shape or form should a high value on relationships be seen as a weakness, but so often it becomes narrowly focused down to "A ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP" which again, I think has been twisted out of all recognition by our society/culture, and yes, by popular culture, however much I adore it.
I think the idea of reevaluating how we choose the people we surround ourselves with, and the relationships we form with them, is fantastic, and that it's way past time more people talked about it. I think that *may* be some of what Gottleib was trying to get at. The offensive and demeaning way she presented settling almost completely obscured it, however. I could read it between the lines in places, but her tone and style really got in the way.