A quick question for writers

[msagara]

I mentioned earlier that I have been using the equivalent of MS Word's wordcount while writing, and that this has not perhaps been very smart. I know that we're all looking at the lengths of our various books, and I was wondering: How do you keep track of wordcount while writing? Because I had an extra 45K words and an extra 25K words when looking at the page runoffs on the two books I did write in Scrivener, and this was ... unfortunate. And I would like not to repeat it if I can*.

If you need to turn in a 100k manuscript--or a manuscript of a specific maximum length--do you check the runoff count as part of your daily writing, do you format it in manuscript format so you write -to- a runoff count?

ETA: * I am aware that there might be a bit of gentle mockery at this point

Comments

[mizkit.livejournal.com]

I write in manuscript format, where for me 'manuscript format' is 12pt Courier set to exact 25pt spacing with .3" tabs and 1" margins all around. And then I do this slightly weird thing for wordcount: I use MS Word's wordcount for my goal for the length of the book, so if it's 110K, I want MSW to say 110K. That's slightly longer than 440 pages, though, and almost all the time the result is that I actually come in just about dead on the page count expected. I don't think I've ever had a book come out more than 5K more or less than anticipated. Certainly not more than 10K.

No idea if that's helpful, but that's what I do. :)

[autopope.livejournal.com]

I don't write in manuscript format -- when word processing I use my own style sheet and reset the paragraph styles to manuscript format only when I'm ready to submit: double-spaced courier is a really poor working format for editing on-screen. But I prefer to write original copy using a text editor.

I don't (and never have) used runoff count; I go by what the word processor says the word count is (or preferably by the wc(1) algorithm if I'm working in vi).

In general, the runoff count and lexical word count of my fiction agree within a couple of percent. Which is probably a stylistic thing.

[nadia-lee.livejournal.com]

1st draft -- whatever font I want

For 2nd draft -- I use the ms format to make sure I stay within the proper word count limit.

[kateelliott.livejournal.com]

People keep track of their word counts while writing? I'd rather not know.

[camille-is-here.livejournal.com]

I use MS Word for Mac, 12 pt. Times Roman, in manuscript format which usually turns out to be roughly a page in paperback. I use the running wordcount at the bottom of the page.

I don't know what a runoff is, and I have no idea if I'm off on the word count or not, but I don't think I'm off by much, given the page counts. Since I'm within norms for the genres, book length has never come up as an issue.

[http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/]

I check wordcount at the end of the day and keep a running total in a notebook. Full, usually, of arithmetical errors. I am such a luddite. Sigh.

[domynoe.livejournal.com]

I don't use Word. I use a program called Atlantis and I use the word count from it. It seems more accurate than Word and keeps note of the word count in the bottom bar of the program, so I only have to check it when I want to know the count of a specific section.

I have to admit, I don't know what a runoff is in regards to word counts. When done with the piece, I just count the whole thing. If I need to make cuts, I start looking for places to make those cuts until the count is where I need it. Wish I wrote more cleanly than that to begin with, but I'm not so blessed. It usually takes at least 4 or 5 revisions to get where it needs to be and as good as it can be.

[jimhines.livejournal.com]

I use Word's wordcount, and have never really worried about it. I usually aim for around 95,000 to 100,000 words. Five books in, it's never been an issue so far.

[stevenagy.livejournal.com]

I place it in a manuscript format that gives me 250 words per page. It's actually 252 if I don't round down, but it's close enough. So, 400 pages equals 100,000 words.

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

I tend to only look at the MS thing for comparison purposes, but tend not to do wordcount at all unless asked. (I have very bad number dyslexia, and have trouble making large numbers meaningful. Page count works better for me.)

[larryhammer]

I use my word-processor's wordcount, which in my case is an ascii editor called TextPad. (When submission time comes, I decant into a manuscript-formatted template in FrameMaker. I try to avoid Word if at all possible.)

---L.

[barbarienne.livejournal.com]

Speaking in my Text Designer (that is, the person who designs and typesets the interior of the book) guise:

The absolute wordcount is not relevant. If you are a writer who uses a lot of long paragraphs, you will pack more words onto a single typeset page. If, however, you tend toward lots of dialogue, your typeset pages will have a lot of white space, and not very many words per page.

There are other factors as well: using fewer, longer chapters takes less room than many little chapters (all that white space at the beginning and end, you see).

The best approach a writer can take is to use SMF. 12pt courier, double spaced, 1" margins all around. Then you count each manuscript page as 250 words, (regardless of how many words actually are on an individual page).

So if you need to turn in a 100K manuscript, you need 400 manuscript pages in standard format. If you tend to long paragraphs and not so much dialogue, you can probably run past that a little bit.

Also, be sure not to suppress widows and orphans. Again, depending on your stylistic quirks, that might make your manuscript appear longer than it really is.

[jmeadows.livejournal.com]

It seems to me the problem is writing something, frex, 100k in Scriv, and then exporting it to Open Office or Word, and discovering another 25k in there when you convert to SFM?

That is normal. That is the difference between SMF and word processor wordcount. There's always a huge difference. So if your editor wants 100k SMF, then you can go into Scriv, click View, Project Stats, and there it will give you page counts. Go to the options tab in there and make sure the lines per page is at 25. Give it a second to recount, and that will give you how many SMF pages on the printed pages line. 400 will be where you aim.

Make sense? Even if you were writing in Word and using the processor count, then converting to SMF, you'd have the same wordcount jump. That's just their natures.

Of course, I'm only assuming that's the problem you're describing...

[stillnotbored.livejournal.com]

No mocking. But this is why I'm really leery of whiz bang writing programs and stick to Word.

I write in SMF, courier 12pt, double spaced lines, etc. in MSWord. As I told Ms. E down there, my agent told me to stop doing word count that way, she only wants to hear about MSWord count. The word count I post in progress reports is MSWord, but that's just so I know I'm making progress.

So doing it this way, I keep track of page counts and MSWord count at the same time. When I finished writing last night I had exactly 80 pages. MSWord tells me that is 17,304 words. If I do the 250 words per page SMF count, that says 20k. That is a big difference.

Mostly I shoot for page count. Somewhere between 400-450 pages is in the ballpark. Then I stick MSWord count on there for the agent. It makes her happy.

[brigidsblest.livejournal.com]

I mentioned earlier that I have been using ...MS Word's wordcount while writing, and that this has not perhaps been very smart.

Er...why? That's what I've been using.

[fairmer.livejournal.com]

It's extremely heartening that someone further along than me has these same questions. Well. Sort of. Heartening, in a disheartening way. :)

[willietheshakes.livejournal.com]

I was told there would be no MATH!!!

[sleary.livejournal.com]

Isn't there a character-based method of figuring out the runoff count? My memory is vague here, but it's something like 6 characters (including spaces) = 1 average word. That sort of thing would be pretty easy for a computer to do on the fly, and Keith might be willing to add such a feature to Scrivener 2 if you mention it in the feedback forum.

[burger-eater.livejournal.com]

MSWord will squeeze extra lines on the page depending on whether you set the line spacing for "double" (25 lines) or "exactly 24 points" (27 lines).

And it's my experience so far that I'm not expected to worry about the number of pages. Maybe their expectations are extraordinarily low. :)

Still, I write in manuscript format (or what I use for my manuscripts): Dark Courier, 12 pt, half-inch para indents, exactly 24 points (to save paper, 'natch), so I think it gets pretty close.

Finally, on Word for Mac, the word count appears at the bottom of the window automatically... until I hit 100K, when it disappears. I know when I can't see how many words I've done it's time to wrap wrap wrap it up!