An interrupted conversation
Feb. 21st, 2008 05:50 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
msagaraAs many of you know, I work in a bookstore. I like working in a bookstore.
Some of our customers know I write books (some of them also read them). One of our customers came into the store yesterday, where I had taken one of my hardcovers (mostly to show![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
cszego, who was also working). The customer looked at the book and then asked me what the print run was. He's worked in the printing industry, and I think he was trying to price the cover, although I'm not certain about this. He has also, as came out later in the conversation, worked with ad agencies, or rather as part of them.
I said, "I don't know." Because, actually, I don't know.
This surprised him, and he asked why I didn't know.
I mostly don't know because at this point, it doesn't matter – I can't change it. Actually, at almost any point it doesn't matter, because I can't change it. This doesn't mean I wouldn't listen with interest if someone were to take time out of their overworked and busy schedule to tell me, but it does mean that I won't demand time out of same to find out. I told him that all of the relevant information would come to me on the royalty statement, and that since I could not change anything at this point, I was content to receive it then.
The next question he asked: "How much self-promotion does your publisher expect you to do?"
I said, "None." Because, actually, it's true.
There was another disconnect, another silence, and then "Why?"
"Possibly because they're afraid we'll offend everyone when we're sent out in public. Or possibly because they're afraid we will bother the publicists they do employ."
The next question, then: "How much self-promotion are you planning to do?"
Oddly enough, I said "None." This is not entirely true, but for the purpose of this particular conversation, it was close enough.
And then he asked me both why, and how I expected to actually – well, to be fair, I can't remember his actual wording, but what I took from it was: Sell any books.
He has done promotion in the music business, to some effect, and of course pays attention to promotion done in any other businesses. So he looked at me as if I were a complete moron when I said "the type of promotion that I consider effective, in terms of marketing books, I can't afford." In particular, the display space/endcap space/front shelf multiple-pocket space, that the chains sell to publishers. I am not 100% sure that I could, as an individual, purchase those spaces, but I admit that I've never done any research with that in mind. I think, to his mind, I couldn't afford not to do these things.
So I said, "The publishing industry is not, in general, exactly like the other industries in this regard."
"Why not?"
"Well... what makes you go and pick up a new novel? Because for most of the people I know, it's someone else telling them they really liked the book (or hated it). I realize you probably hear this all the time, but word-of-mouth, which it is very hard to buy, predict, or control, seems to be the biggest factor. And then cover. Where I'd prefer the money be spent, if I had any say in it."
He felt that radio ads would at least be useful (and economical). I could not imagine a radio ad that would work, for me, but I don't listen to all that much radio. But he kept coming back to the same point: Movies. Music. If the big guys are all doing this, there's got to be a pressing reason, and it's something that publishers should also be doing if they own the property (and that, by implication, I should be doing on a shoestring if I do, although to be fair, he did not suggest that I spend millions of dollars doing it).
Of course, he also admitted that a 60 million dollar movie with its 20 million dollar promotional budget made 10 million dollars.
I really like this person, btw. I like his taste in books, which is often quirky, and I generally enjoy talking to him – but I admit that I have never talked about the business of publishing with him until now.
And I was trying to think of a way to say that the promotional budget of most houses is probably not much more, in total, for every book they're publishing in one year, than the budget for a single movie of the type he was citing, with regards to advertising/promotion campaigns. (Yes, I could have just said this, since that's what I normally do, but on rare occasions, I try not to be entirely offensive. No, there is nothing offensive in what I just typed, but when someone says something that shocks me, I tend to be a touch on the more forceful-than-necessary side if I just blurt out the first words that come to mind.)
While I was doing this, because I admit I live in a bubble where most people who will speak about these things have the same general sense of the business, overall, that I do, he said, "How do you think J.K. Rowling or Stephen King or Robert Ludlum got started?"
And while I have no idea how Ludlum got started, I know that Rowling's first book was published in a small run, and with a small advance, by the division of the company that published middle-grade fantasy. I know that King's first novel, Carrie did better than anyone expected in hardcover, and at that time, the hardcover publishers frequently didn't have a mass market division, so the auction for the paperback rights were big. But in either case, the word-of-mouth response built – quickly.
I still don't think we've reached the point in this industry where that's going to go away; I still don't think we can package and promote our way to Rowling or King status. I understand that in our ad-aware society, there's possibly going to be some misconceptions about this. And because I can think of so many titles that were heavily pushed and fell into obscurity, I never think that the big sellers are entirely due to marketing efforts. Terry Brooks owes something to the marketing effort, but it is not clear to me that he would not have reached critical mass without it.
The point is: Books are not interchangeable. If publishers knew in advance which titles could to promoted to greatness, they would be doing that. They're a business. It's not always clear that a book that you loved will hit a broad range of diverse readers in the same way, which is what is needed. Boiling the books down to the plot/genre elements doesn't work; there's some alchemy that gets missed when you dissect a novel, because in general you dissect corpses, not living things.
Do I want my books to sell? Well, yes. Do I want people to love them? Of course I do. But I suppose at this point in my life, with almost 30 years of watching the bookstore shelves, I don't feel as if I'm betraying the book by putting most of my effort (and my endless fretting, which I promise I will try much harder not to burden you all with) into working on the next book.
And that's what I didn't actually get the chance to finish saying to this poor man: In terms of career investment the best thing I can do is to write new books in as timely a fashion as I can manage. If all my books are written on time, and I am not foolish enough to start working on a third world, my feeling might be different.
But I might also spend more time with my husband and children.
Some of our customers know I write books (some of them also read them). One of our customers came into the store yesterday, where I had taken one of my hardcovers (mostly to show
cszego, who was also working). The customer looked at the book and then asked me what the print run was. He's worked in the printing industry, and I think he was trying to price the cover, although I'm not certain about this. He has also, as came out later in the conversation, worked with ad agencies, or rather as part of them.I said, "I don't know." Because, actually, I don't know.
This surprised him, and he asked why I didn't know.
I mostly don't know because at this point, it doesn't matter – I can't change it. Actually, at almost any point it doesn't matter, because I can't change it. This doesn't mean I wouldn't listen with interest if someone were to take time out of their overworked and busy schedule to tell me, but it does mean that I won't demand time out of same to find out. I told him that all of the relevant information would come to me on the royalty statement, and that since I could not change anything at this point, I was content to receive it then.
The next question he asked: "How much self-promotion does your publisher expect you to do?"
I said, "None." Because, actually, it's true.
There was another disconnect, another silence, and then "Why?"
"Possibly because they're afraid we'll offend everyone when we're sent out in public. Or possibly because they're afraid we will bother the publicists they do employ."
The next question, then: "How much self-promotion are you planning to do?"
Oddly enough, I said "None." This is not entirely true, but for the purpose of this particular conversation, it was close enough.
And then he asked me both why, and how I expected to actually – well, to be fair, I can't remember his actual wording, but what I took from it was: Sell any books.
He has done promotion in the music business, to some effect, and of course pays attention to promotion done in any other businesses. So he looked at me as if I were a complete moron when I said "the type of promotion that I consider effective, in terms of marketing books, I can't afford." In particular, the display space/endcap space/front shelf multiple-pocket space, that the chains sell to publishers. I am not 100% sure that I could, as an individual, purchase those spaces, but I admit that I've never done any research with that in mind. I think, to his mind, I couldn't afford not to do these things.
So I said, "The publishing industry is not, in general, exactly like the other industries in this regard."
"Why not?"
"Well... what makes you go and pick up a new novel? Because for most of the people I know, it's someone else telling them they really liked the book (or hated it). I realize you probably hear this all the time, but word-of-mouth, which it is very hard to buy, predict, or control, seems to be the biggest factor. And then cover. Where I'd prefer the money be spent, if I had any say in it."
He felt that radio ads would at least be useful (and economical). I could not imagine a radio ad that would work, for me, but I don't listen to all that much radio. But he kept coming back to the same point: Movies. Music. If the big guys are all doing this, there's got to be a pressing reason, and it's something that publishers should also be doing if they own the property (and that, by implication, I should be doing on a shoestring if I do, although to be fair, he did not suggest that I spend millions of dollars doing it).
Of course, he also admitted that a 60 million dollar movie with its 20 million dollar promotional budget made 10 million dollars.
I really like this person, btw. I like his taste in books, which is often quirky, and I generally enjoy talking to him – but I admit that I have never talked about the business of publishing with him until now.
And I was trying to think of a way to say that the promotional budget of most houses is probably not much more, in total, for every book they're publishing in one year, than the budget for a single movie of the type he was citing, with regards to advertising/promotion campaigns. (Yes, I could have just said this, since that's what I normally do, but on rare occasions, I try not to be entirely offensive. No, there is nothing offensive in what I just typed, but when someone says something that shocks me, I tend to be a touch on the more forceful-than-necessary side if I just blurt out the first words that come to mind.)
While I was doing this, because I admit I live in a bubble where most people who will speak about these things have the same general sense of the business, overall, that I do, he said, "How do you think J.K. Rowling or Stephen King or Robert Ludlum got started?"
And while I have no idea how Ludlum got started, I know that Rowling's first book was published in a small run, and with a small advance, by the division of the company that published middle-grade fantasy. I know that King's first novel, Carrie did better than anyone expected in hardcover, and at that time, the hardcover publishers frequently didn't have a mass market division, so the auction for the paperback rights were big. But in either case, the word-of-mouth response built – quickly.
I still don't think we've reached the point in this industry where that's going to go away; I still don't think we can package and promote our way to Rowling or King status. I understand that in our ad-aware society, there's possibly going to be some misconceptions about this. And because I can think of so many titles that were heavily pushed and fell into obscurity, I never think that the big sellers are entirely due to marketing efforts. Terry Brooks owes something to the marketing effort, but it is not clear to me that he would not have reached critical mass without it.
The point is: Books are not interchangeable. If publishers knew in advance which titles could to promoted to greatness, they would be doing that. They're a business. It's not always clear that a book that you loved will hit a broad range of diverse readers in the same way, which is what is needed. Boiling the books down to the plot/genre elements doesn't work; there's some alchemy that gets missed when you dissect a novel, because in general you dissect corpses, not living things.
Do I want my books to sell? Well, yes. Do I want people to love them? Of course I do. But I suppose at this point in my life, with almost 30 years of watching the bookstore shelves, I don't feel as if I'm betraying the book by putting most of my effort (and my endless fretting, which I promise I will try much harder not to burden you all with) into working on the next book.
And that's what I didn't actually get the chance to finish saying to this poor man: In terms of career investment the best thing I can do is to write new books in as timely a fashion as I can manage. If all my books are written on time, and I am not foolish enough to start working on a third world, my feeling might be different.
But I might also spend more time with my husband and children.
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no subject
Date: 2008-02-21 11:14 pm (UTC)I've been feeling really behind the curve lately, watching all the kids get freaky about their Pub Date (as if the actual day means a thing--unless they're Harry Potter, books slide out there over a period of weeks, not on a single day), and go on about this promo op and that bookmark and this or that signing and on and on. They're working like mad to promote their books, with the clear assumption that it's required and, more to the point, effective. It's been giving me a complex.
I mean, back in the day, she said, looking around for her wheelchair (must be somewhere between the saddle racks and the manure cart), we were taught that signings and the like make an author feel good and keep the author's family off his case, but the only real, effective promotion is what you've described. Well, that and a good website, regularly updated, and a blog that builds a following.
So it's still true? I'm not insane for opting out of the self-promo game?
I can't tell you how much better that makes me feel.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-22 12:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-22 12:27 am (UTC)Can you expand on this one a bit? It's the only one that I have no real experience with in my years on the retail lines, and I'm now of course deeply curious.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-22 09:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-22 02:08 am (UTC)At least in terms of direct stuff. Indirectly ... I'm hearing a lot of anecdotal evidence that blogging, if you have an interesting blog presence (and talk about interesting things, and don't only focus on trying to get people to buy your books) can have an effect, though it's tricky to measure.
But sitting behind a table smiling for two hours in order to sell five books really doesn't have that much impact ... unless that table is in a bookstore, and you're cordial and likeable about it, and you use it to help build a relationship with the booksellers there that will make them maybe continue caring about your books after you leave. Which means the occasional bookstore signing can do some good, but carting my books to other places, where I'll be forgotten the moment I take my books home, not so much.
(Actually, Michelle, I'd be curious as to your take on bookstore signings, and what the bookseller feels they do or don't get out of them.)
I did a bunch of stuff when my last book came out, mostly at random, responding to opportunities without evaluating them. This time around I'm trying to think about what's actually effective, and also about what I can do without eating into too much of my writing time, since I'm pretty much "spending" time to do things.
One requirement is: I have to be able to enjoy being there. Otherwise, if I'm not enjoying myself, there's no way I'm going to come across well to anyone, at which point I may as well stay home.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-22 02:18 am (UTC)I have more to say on this in a bit. Well, actually, I always have more to say, but this is even relevant.
(Actually, Michelle, I'd be curious as to your take on bookstore signings, and what the bookseller feels they do or don't get out of them.)
First novel launches for people who are actually in the same city are always a really nice way of moving a lot of books. As for the rest? Getting a big name author to come to the store and sign books does sell more books, for us. For a newer author, it's more a community thing, because you won't move as many books -- but it's not always about the bottom line when you're part of an on-going community, and obviously we don't expect huge numbers in that case.
But yes, if you're friendly and helpful and it's not stressful to have you in the store, we do remember -- and yes, if we have a choice between two recommendations, there's a tendency to tip towards the person we remember as being nice. But:
One requirement is: I have to be able to enjoy being there. Otherwise, if I'm not enjoying myself, there's no way I'm going to come across well to anyone, at which point I may as well stay home.
Is really, really important. I think the Library conferences are important as well, for YA writers -- I could be wrong about that, but the Librarians are a gateway to the libraries. But I also get the impression that good reviews will have the same impact vis a vis a book in the libraries.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-22 02:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-22 09:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-22 02:26 am (UTC)I can't tell you how much better that makes me feel.
The story I tend to tell people who are very, very stressed about self-promotion: My two most successful books to date were published when I had fallen off the edge of the universe and had no energy to do anything except write (and when I say energy, it is grossly overstating the case). No web presence, no LJ presence, no email, nothing.
This may mean that I am of that class of writer who is better off being invisible because I am either too boring or too offensive, although I would like to believe this is not the case.
Had I attempted to put any of that non-existent energy into promoting the existing books at that time I would never have had the third book ready, or the 4th (which, admittedly, is not out yet), and I would have lost any sales momentum the the first 2 had built.
I think, rather than saying self-promotion is pointless, which I'm trying hard not to say, I'd rather emphasize that writing time is the vastly more productive choice if you have to choose between the two.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-22 02:40 am (UTC)I can live with that.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-22 02:59 am (UTC)Pretty much - although as usual, it's also timing, because things move so quickly =/. Sometimes it takes people time to find an author; LKH was by no means an overnight success, and look at her now.